Lee can destroy people on stage all he wants for me. His Top Gear stuff is some of my favourite. But I do prefer when he justifies his attacks on stage to when he knocks out a Mcarthyite list of names and lumps them in with the Taliban.
Yeah, maybe putting out an unjustified list of 'bad things' isn't a great idea. But I think calling it "Mcarthyite" is a little over the top - Lee didn't try to get anyone fired or blacklisted, he just put their name in his newsletter. And crucially, nobody really noticed or cared until Darrell made a fuss about it.
I agree that it's much funnier when Lee does long bits attacking other acts in his shows (and he is still doing that, he goes pretty hard after Toby Young (IIRC) in Snowflake/Tornado) - but when he does that, he's always picking on acts who are much more mainstream and successful than he is. If he'd done 5 minutes on stage mocking an obscure act like Darrell Mclaine, even if it was amply justified, to me that would seem like genuinely 'punching down'.
I would go further and say nothing wrong with 'genuinely punching down'. I've been made fun of plenty times in my life by more popular and better off people. Taught me useful things (to have a sense of humor for one) and spurred me on. Maybe you don't want to have too much of it, but a society wide embargo seems like a bit much as well.
Yeah, I mean it all depends on the context. In a stand-up comedy context, the people who are concerned with 'punching down' are often totally OK with jokes aimed at the right low-status groups (men who have trouble finding romantic partners are still fair game, for example).
In an interpersonal context, obviously there's a fine line between teasing and outright bullying. The rich popular kids mocking the weird ones is not ideal, but then on the other hand it is good to be able to take a joke about yourself. And sometimes people who are doing something antisocial like neglecting basic hygiene or liking anime do need correction.
Picked this up from the Freddie Deboer link.
Good job.
Lee can destroy people on stage all he wants for me. His Top Gear stuff is some of my favourite. But I do prefer when he justifies his attacks on stage to when he knocks out a Mcarthyite list of names and lumps them in with the Taliban.
Funny, yes, fair, not really.
Yeah, maybe putting out an unjustified list of 'bad things' isn't a great idea. But I think calling it "Mcarthyite" is a little over the top - Lee didn't try to get anyone fired or blacklisted, he just put their name in his newsletter. And crucially, nobody really noticed or cared until Darrell made a fuss about it.
I agree that it's much funnier when Lee does long bits attacking other acts in his shows (and he is still doing that, he goes pretty hard after Toby Young (IIRC) in Snowflake/Tornado) - but when he does that, he's always picking on acts who are much more mainstream and successful than he is. If he'd done 5 minutes on stage mocking an obscure act like Darrell Mclaine, even if it was amply justified, to me that would seem like genuinely 'punching down'.
I would go further and say nothing wrong with 'genuinely punching down'. I've been made fun of plenty times in my life by more popular and better off people. Taught me useful things (to have a sense of humor for one) and spurred me on. Maybe you don't want to have too much of it, but a society wide embargo seems like a bit much as well.
Yeah, I mean it all depends on the context. In a stand-up comedy context, the people who are concerned with 'punching down' are often totally OK with jokes aimed at the right low-status groups (men who have trouble finding romantic partners are still fair game, for example).
In an interpersonal context, obviously there's a fine line between teasing and outright bullying. The rich popular kids mocking the weird ones is not ideal, but then on the other hand it is good to be able to take a joke about yourself. And sometimes people who are doing something antisocial like neglecting basic hygiene or liking anime do need correction.
There is nothing wrong with liking anime, I am punching down there for comedic effect.